The GIA Support for Individual Artist Committee: What’s New for 2022?

The full transcript of this podcast is published below.
Explore the full GIA podcast.

Sherylynn Sealy
Welcome to a podcast by Grantmakers In The Arts, a national membership association of public and private arts and culture funders. I'm Sherylynn Sealy, GIA's senior program manager. GIA members have been working together to promote and improve funding for individual artists for over 20 years. The Support For Individual Artist Committee has been one of the most active groups of funders within GIA. The committee has been an incubator for projects, including a scan of scholarly research and artist support, a visual timeline outlining the history of artist support funding, major publications and other programs that you'll hear more about from our guests.

In this podcast, our Support For Individual Artist Committee co-chairs, Ce Scott-Fitts, Artist Development Director, South Carolina Arts Commission, and Celeste Smith, Senior Program Officer for Arts and Culture at the Pittsburgh Foundation. We'll give you a snapshot of what the committee has been working on and what you can look forward to for this year. We're also taking a deep dive into our theme for 2022, Mental Health and Healthcare for Artists. And we'll hear from special guest Dr. David Fakunle, CEO of DiscoverME/RecoverME and Adjunct Assistant Professor of the University of Florida. So let's get started. Thank you all so much for joining us and I'll kick it over to our co-chairs Celeste and Ce. How are you today?

Celeste Smith
Good. Good. How are you?

Sherylynn Sealy
I am doing well. So let us know how you're showing up today and take some time to introduce yourselves.

Celeste Smith
Well, I guess I would say I'm showing up thoughtful today. I'm even kind of tensed up, because it's a time where we are finding ourselves in the midst of the holy time for all of the three Abrahamic religions. And so, it's a time where just thinking about the unity of perspective in this time. I am Celeste. I am a wife, a mother, a sister, a daughter, an artist. Served on boards, arts admin. I come to GIA as senior program officer for arts and culture with the Pittsburgh Foundation. And I think the most important title for this moment is that I am a co-chair. So I'm going to pass the mic to my girl Ce, she can tell you a little bit more about herself.

Ce Scott-Fitts
Oh. Thanks sis. Hello everyone, I am so happy to be on this podcast with all of you and to be in conversation. I am showing up grateful today. I'm feeling just grateful and thankful for my health, and my family, and my friends. And that's how I'm feeling at this moment. I am a wife, mother, daughter, artist, poet, chef, curator. And one of the things that I would say that I absolutely love, as artist development director for the South Carolina Arts Commission, is working with individual artists. All disciplines, all levels, getting opportunities, grants, fellowships into their hands and developing new projects. And I am honored to be co-chairing this committee with Celeste Smith and to be able to work with Sherylynn Sealy, for Grantmakers In The Arts.

Sherylynn Sealy
Thank you. And so, we'll just dive in from here. So when we last released a podcast from the committee, we were discussing a lot of different topics, including the feeling of belonging. We talked a lot about immigration, we were working on a data project and we were also exploring the Jerome Foundation's racial equity tool. And since then, we have explored a lot of other topics. So can you just kind of give us an update on some of the things that we've been talking about as a committee, since you all came into leadership?

Ce Scott-Fitts
Yeah. I can start us off. I joined back in 2020 and man, what a year. Some of the highlights that we've discussed during that time were artists as leaders and decision makers. And part of the reason why that came up was that we were recognizing that part of the problem and maybe even… Well, part of the challenge and even the problem is that you've got people that don't know nothing. That's my grandmother [inaudible]. You don't know nothing about art, in these positions of power, making decisions for artists. In these positions, where they're making decisions that are going to affect the artists' ability to flourish, to grow, to earn income, to have access to work or a livelihood. And so, one of the ideas that came up was definitely artists as leaders in these decision making roles. The other thing that we… One of the other things that we discussed was the public sector and having artists at the table.

Again, this is kind of for me… One kind of feeds into the other. I see them kind of like working together, because you have the private sector and then you have the public sector, both having different roles in terms of funding and grant making capabilities. But the common denominator, again with even the public sector, is where are the artists in this equation? And so, that was definitely something that we talked about. And then, what does civic engagement look like for artists? I have seen from personal experience over the last 20 or 25 years, that sometimes there are artists… Or artists are interested in being more civically engaged and taking on more advocacy roles, but they really don't know how to get in there or what that could look like.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thank you so much, Ce. Celeste, can you share a little bit more?

Celeste Smith
Sure. I got my promotion to co-chair in 2021. And I want to say in this timeframe, we saw and built with people from all over the field. Artist thrivability is the first focus of our work. But we spoke to practitioners in the field to help us get a better understanding of how not to get in our own way. We talked to members of the philanthropic community, who work alongside Ce, Sherylynn and I on the committee. And we talk to those who are a part of the Hive, which is our extended family of a philanthropic community that help us think the topics. So once a month, we parse topics that the field is working through. And in 2021, we talked about challenging complacency in the field, white supremacy and how it shows up in arts funding. We talked about solidarity, not charity.

We do some power dynamics between funders and artists or any other power dynamics that exist in the field. We talked about advocating for increased funding and challenging systems definitions of what artists are. We talked about supporting basic needs and taking a mentality of, "Come as you are, not as shrink to fit philanthropy." So we had a plethora of conversations last year and our discussions culminated in a conversation about building [inaudible] for artists. And we presented on this topic at the GIA pre-conference, where we took it all the way back to our beginning and then took it all the way further. Taking a page from our patron saint, Octavia Butler, to envision what a future looks like for us.

So what we didn't know, and we found out, is that we cannot have a conversation about thrivability of artists, sustainability of artists, financial health, without addressing the very real throughline of artists' health, whether it's physical, mental or even spiritual. We have to talk about these topics and we have to talk about them from a historical, current and future perspective. Which takes us into our topic, healthcare, mental healthcare, physical healthcare for artists and the needs of artists specifically from today and beyond.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thank you so much for that. So before we transition, I do want to push a little bit further. The topic of arts and mental health and healthcare for individual artists is one that has continued to come up over the past few years. And so, what are some of the things that you both have seen come up in conversations amongst the committee and in your own work, as it relates to mental health and healthcare for artists? Kind of like why is this such a big topic for us this year?

Ce Scott-Fitts
I feel like one of the things that I've seen, that's come up for me, and then in my conversations with artists, is… Celeste, you kind of touched on this when you were talking about basic needs, having your basic needs met. But as creatives, we can't even get our head around doing our work, doing our creative work, if our mind is all twisted, if we don't have healthcare. If we can't get just basic things that we need to function as humans and as citizens, we can't even get to the work that we are designed to do. So for me, what I see and what I am thinking about is, this is something that is essential and we have got to figure it out. Like serious.

Sherylynn Sealy
Yeah. That's great.

Ce Scott-Fitts
Yeah.

Sherylynn Sealy
Thanks, Ce.

Celeste Smith
Yeah. I'm in complete agreement with Ce. And I also wanted to elevate another topic that came up, even in our most recent Hive call, which is about arts administrators. I have a… I live in a family of artists. My husband is an independent artist. [inaudible] Everybody needed Celeste. Right? Because can't nobody do it by themselves. And when we think about whether it's you're working as an individual artist or you're working in an organization supporting individual artists, but everybody has somebody when you're talking about the work that needs to be done. COVID impacted those other people that are a part of this artist family, whether relatives or related by the work. Right?

And so, the question came up like, "Can we get a little conversation about the self-care." Right? Because we know Beyonce is a whole business. Right? And so, all those people that's working with Beyonce, who's supporting them? Right? Because they've got to be healthy, they've got to be taken care of as well as they move forward. And so, as we think about how we fund artists, we also have to be very honest about how we support those who support artists, because it's all connected.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thanks Celeste. And with that, I would like to invite you into the conversation David. Introduce yourself and share how you're showing up today.

David Fakunle
Cool. No. It's a pleasure to be here. Greetings everyone. I am showing up as I am, honestly. But David today is pretty cool, pretty chill. It's 4/20. That's pretty dope.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great.

Celeste Smith
Real chill. We're showing up real chill today.

David Fakunle
But no. I'm doing all right today. I'm doing okay. So I am a son, proud son of [inaudible] and Dr. Deborah. I am Dr. Mary's brother. As I say, she's the smarter one of us too. I am Doralie's husband. I am Cruz Matisse's father. And above all else, in addition to those things, I'm a storyteller. And for me, I apply my storytelling in any way possible. In any way, any space that's open to me. So as a researcher, as a practitioner, as a healer, as someone who needs to be healed. Storytelling, storytelling, storytelling for me. So I call myself a mercenary for change, because that's just the best way to describe all the things that I do. So yes. I love to be compensated for the things that I do, either in money or relationships, and both are valuable in different ways.

And it's about change. It's about elevating people to be the best version of themselves. And yes, that's selfish, because I want to be the best version of myself. And what I've learned, is the best way to be the best version of myself, is to help other people be the best version of themselves. So I like to think it's selfish, but it's also a symbiotic relationship. For me to be me, I need others. And my life continues to be, I think, a demonstration of the importance of the relationships and cultivating healthy relationships. So yeah. I'm an arts and public health guy. And I love to show that everything I do is not new. I love the fact that I'm just bringing the traditions of my ancestors and my ancestry to this space and saying, "See, they were right." And we need to just listen to them. So if I serve any other purpose, then just tell the people, "Listen to the ancestors." Then cool. I'm down with that.

Sherylynn Sealy
Awesome. Thank you for that David. So as you mentioned, your work is positioned at that intersection and you do a lot of work in that area. From being a professor, from being an artist yourself, storyteller, arts administrator, CEO, the list goes on. And when we… Typically, when people talk about work and projects that are at the intersection of arts and health, they think about the mental health benefits of practicing art or practicing an art form. Maybe a long day at work, long day at the office, I'm going to go take a dance class, I'm going to go take a painting class. And that's a lot of the time what people are talking about when they're thinking about mental health. But obviously, we know that it's definitely… There's a lot more to that and there are a lot of other perspectives that need to come into the conversation if we're talking about supporting mental health, and health for artists and within the arts as a whole. So can you offer some perspective on this? What should people be thinking about and paying attention to?

David Fakunle
I pride myself in helping the audiences that I serve see the commonality in our experience. And when it comes to the health and wellbeing, not just mental health, but overall health and wellbeing of artists, it's no different than the overall health and wellbeing needs of other people. So we need to give space where we can detach. And I think for artists, that might be a difficult thing to do. Detach from our art, detach from our creativity. Because those of us who use that as our economy, well, that's what defines us in a lot of ways. That is how we take care of the bills, that's how we take care of our family. But you still need those opportunities to just be yourself. And I know that sounds like cliche and corny, "just be yourself". But it's like really true. Truly be yourself.

And to me, that means everything that comes with being yourself. The things that may be beneficial, not so beneficial, the things that are works in progress, which we all are. It's critical to find balance. And this is coming from somebody who… Sherylynn, as she said, I do a lot and there are consequences to doing a lot. The consequence is that I am not the best at finding that balance. My family will tell you, it is a work in progress. I am not as healthy as I could be, because of the work that I do. So it is about finding balance. And for me, finding balance is having the ability to say no. I'm sure a lot of artists are in a situation where they would love to say no and be comfortable saying no. Because saying no doesn't make or break their career. It doesn't make or break their livelihood. It doesn't make or break their overall health and wellbeing.

They're doing it for the sake of their health and wellbeing. But how many artists are in a position where they feel comfortable saying no? So there's always the need for more support from a financial and economic standpoint, let's not ignore the elephant in that room. But it also… Creating opportunities, where again, artists, culture bearers can even for a moment live life outside of their practice. Because again, so many of us are defined by their practice. I am a storyteller, I am a drummer, I am a musician, I am a sculptor. Like that is our "raison d'être". It is who we are. And that's great to one extent, but then we all have those moments where we need to say, "You know what. Let me not be defined by that for at least a moment."

Let me just be David, let me just be Sherylynn, let me just be Ce, let me just be Celeste and even figure out what that even means to be those things. You know what I mean? Because we have to have those conversations with ourselves. We ultimately define what that means. So that all comes down to time and opportunity. Can people afford, literally and figuratively, to have the time to figure out who they truly are? That's the kind of support that many artists need. For me, I don't like that whole starving artist thing. I feel like we're in a position to move past that. You know what I mean?

Sherylynn Sealy
Yeah. Yeah.

David Fakunle
You can be successful as an artist, and still be who you are and have opportunities to just be who you are.

Sherylynn Sealy
Thank you David. So we first met in 2020, when you joined us with Jamie and Tasha, where we talked about the field scan that you did with ArtPlace and what communities need. And we also, as all GIA programs do, looked at funders. Like what do funders need to be looking at, in terms of what communities need to support artists? And to ensure healthier communities through the lens of supporting art. And I don't know if there's anything that you can recall from that field scan that you're still having conversations about today or grappling with today, in addition to what you said, that you think might be useful from your perspective especially. Because you are an artist yourself, that might be useful for listeners to hear right now.

David Fakunle
Ooh. I'm going to try my best to remember. But what I can say, is that my message is still fairly consistent two years later. It's a good thing on one hand, because it means people still want to listen to that message. It's problematic, because at some point, I shouldn't need to say it anymore. So 2020 was a seminal moment, not just in my life, in my career, but for a lot of people. It was a watershed moment. It was a time point that will mark in the annals of human history, it just meant that much. In the realm of arts and health, it presented an opportunity for people to really embrace and acknowledge how important this is. I could say this specifically from a storytelling standpoint, if I really wanted to make a CV of just post 2020 stuff I did, I could.

Sherylynn Sealy
Wow.

David Fakunle
And to me, that's simply a demonstration of how much people recognize the necessity. Not even the… Beyond value, beyond… The necessity of storytelling, how elemental it is to the navigation of the human experience. 2020 and everything that came with that year, and I'll say it, forced people to have this conversation. It forced people to come to this realization, because as we've seen, they probably wouldn't have come to it any other way. A lot of times, we have to be forced to do something to get it. You know what I mean? Learn a lesson the hard way, as opposed to the easy way. So a lot of us learned it the hard way. And the consequence, one of which I would say is ultimately beneficial, is this seeking of arts and culture to help understand. To help understand our feelings, our thoughts, where we could even possibly go from here.

And yet, the intersectionality with public health was very pronounced and remains very pronounced. The needs are the same to the funders out there, to the people that want to support the work of arts and health. There just needs to be more support period. And I would say, support that allows the artists and culture barriers to do what they do. And I truly mean that part, do what they do. Because as I continue to navigate this space… And I tell people, I've only officially been in the arts and health space for three years, but I've been in arts and health my entire life.

Sherylynn Sealy
Sure.

David Fakunle
But it wasn't until three years ago that I realized that my whole life really… I was meant to do this. It's no longer a surprise to me that I'm in this space, because… Ask my mom, ask my dad, it was like, "Yeah. This makes sense. He was meant to be an artist in a health space." So I want to… My crusade, if I have one, is to go to all those artists and culture bearers in Baltimore, where I'm from, and just all across the country and say, "You belong in public health. You always belonged in public health. You were always meant to be here. And what you bring, is exactly what this space needs." 2020 was the moment people started to finally accept that reality.

So now, the support needs to kind of mimic that reality and that acknowledgement that, "Yeah. We need the drummers, we need the [inaudible], we need the quilters, we need all of those culture bearers. Those who bring the traditions, those who bring the practices of their people, of our people, into this space. Yep. You were exactly what was missing. And now we need to make sure you can continue to do this work, and flourish in this space and grow this space. So none of this stuff should literally or figuratively die with anyone anymore. Everything needs to be passed down. This is our opportunity to reestablish the traditions in 2022, moving forward.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thank you David. And I would like to bring you in Celeste and see. Because I'm thinking right now about… We know more funding needs to happen. We know that more funding, beyond project support, needs to happen. We have to center the artist as a human being, as a laborer. And so, if you could kind of speak to the funders who are listening, what are some of the things that you would encourage funders to look more closely at? You both have the experience of going through, and supporting an individual artist and thinking beyond the project. So what would you encourage others, who are currently funding individual artists, to think about, in the space of mental health and healthcare?

Celeste Smith
I think about a lot of times artists are put in this little art box over here to the side. And to David's point earlier, we still need all of that stuff everybody else needs. Right? And so, I think the biggest consideration I would ask for funders to think about, is that artists are people too. We're not a hobby over here. You know what I mean? This is a throughline. Right? And so, we need basic needs and we're going to write a poem about it. Right? We're the laborers and we'll write a song about it. We're the mothers and we'll choreograph a dance around it. We are scientists and we will write a play about it.

I could go on and on. But my point is just that if we weave all these throughlines together, what type of community and what type of world could we have? And so, just remembering the artist as a whole person. You know what I mean? And we all introduce with our different titles and the manifestations of how we show up in the world. So two other people that we work alongside with as artists. And so, that's what I would just encourage people to remember. And when we support, we're not just supporting projects, but we are supporting the livelihood, and the existence, and the thrivability and the person at large.

Sherylynn Sealy
Thanks, Celeste. Ce, anything to add?

Ce Scott-Fitts
One of the things that I would say to funders, is to think about and to be more mindful about accessibility. And I'm saying that, because I'm thinking… Or what I see out there in the field, is the same folks keep getting the money. And at the same time, what I hear is, "Well, we put it out there. We are just not getting… We're not able to reach those artists. We're not able to reach those people." Well, it's none of this, "If you build it, they will come." You have to go get them. And so, when I'm talking about… When I say, "mindfulness", and as it relates to accessibility, I'm saying that one of the things that can kind of get funders on the path to more equity, and accessibility and all those terms that are floating around out there, is to maybe think about doing things differently. You can't continue doing things the same way and expecting a different result. So that would be what I would say.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thank you Ce, for bringing that in. And the subject of accessibility, that's crucial. And before we go, I want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to share any final words. Any last insights that you want people to hear?

David Fakunle
Oh. Well, I hope this is not the last time people hear my voice. Almost feels like a eulogy or something. [inaudible] My existence. I don't know.

Sherylynn Sealy
No. Last words of the podcast.

David Fakunle
All right. So I would just say to my artists out there, continue to do the work. It's being recognized, it is appreciated, it is necessary. And if I do anything in my power, it's to elevate that recognition so that you get the support you always deserve. To me, there's nothing more that you all have to prove. You've proven it. Now it's our job to convey the language. To the funders out there, get your head out of your ass. Real talk. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

There are enough challenges in this world that we need to focus on, that we don't need to get caught up in. Minutiae, and [inaudible] and whatever other terms you want to put out there. There are people who are doing the work, they're doing it well, pay them. Pay them well, so that they can take care of themselves, so that they can help other people do it. And you know what? Other people will join in. That's how we build a healthy economy. You see how this works for everybody? You know what I mean? So again, get your head out of your ass. Who else? Who else do I need to talk to?

Sherylynn Sealy
Patrons.

David Fakunle
Researchers.

Sherylynn Sealy
Researchers. Great.

David Fakunle
Yes. Researchers like me, also get your head out of your ass. The way that arts and culture works, is not in alignment with the way that science currently operates. That's not arts and culture's fault, that's science's fault. So what I'm saying is, believe the stories. There are no statistics out there that are going to capture the essence, that are going to capture the transformation of any artistic or cultural practice. I've been doing this for a long time, and I guarantee you, ain't no paper that can replicate the experience of being around African drumming, African dancing, black storytelling, just ain't. The stories would be the best evidence you can find. So accept the stories, think about how we can build around the stories. The stories are the data, let's utilize it.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great.

Celeste Smith
I guess I would say that a colleague of mine, when I first started in philanthropy, her name is Michelle McMurray, she said, "It's all made up." And so, we stick to a rule book that is all made up. And so, is this… This line of work is about making stuff up, let's make some stuff up. You know what I mean? That is more equitable. Right? That is based on the data, based on the storytelling. I think it's important to acknowledge that there is… Even like [inaudible] ain't even legally necessary. So what does it look like to do away with that, in the spaces where it's not? Right? And so, that's what I would say to funders. It's, "Look and see what is actually necessary." And for artists, again, I would just say, do not shrink yourself to fit philanthropy. Philanthropy has to meet you where you are.

Sherylynn Sealy
Thanks Celeste. Ce?

Ce Scott-Fitts
Only thing that I'm thinking right now, that I would say to funders is, stop saying that this is how it's always been done. Because what we used to do, used to be, that don't live here anymore. It's gone. So stop and recognize that this is a chance to create what is needed and necessary.

Sherylynn Sealy
That's great. Thank you. Thank you for that Ce. And thank you all for all of your insights, very powerful mic drop moments that we've got here. And to our listeners, we look forward to continuing these conversations. So be sure to tune into our future episodes of the Support For Individual Artists Committee podcast that you'll see coming out this year. Be sure to follow us on Facebook at GIArts, Twitter at GIArts and Instagram at Grantmakers In The Arts. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Sherylynn Sealy at sherylynn@giarts.org. And thank you so much for listening.